Gary Smith: "I know what is achievable, I know what I'm capable of"

For eight years, Gary Smith was synonymous with Nashville Soccer Club.

The coach, a former MLS Cup winner with the Colorado Rapids, took charge of the club in 2017, helping to build their USL Championship squad before manning the helm for three-and-a-half seasons in Major League Soccer, earning a playoff spot in every full season he coached in USL and MLS. Smith was relieved of his duties in May 2024.

He hasn't spoken publicly since. Until now.

Speaking exclusively to SixOneFive Soccer in a wide-ranging conversation at a Nolensville coffee shop, Smith reflected on his time with the club, the signings that didn't work, the Leagues Cup final that got away, and what comes next.

Quotes have been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.

Two years, a pint of Guinness, and perspective

Ben Wright: This is probably the first time a lot of people have heard from you since leaving Nashville. What has life been like for the past two years?

Gary Smith: Yeah, it's been a nice opportunity to take a deep breath and come away from the everyday hustle and bustle and stresses of being involved at the top level in the US. We'd gone through two expansions, USL into MLS. There's a lot of work to go on there.

I think when I took a step back and started to evaluate what had gone on, I realised that the break was probably going to do me a world of good. It's not something that any of us as coaches would instigate, but when it's forced upon you, you realize that maybe there's an opportunity to – a little bit like a pint of Guinness – just let things settle down. As it's settling, you actually start to absorb some of the things that had gone on, for good and bad, some of the good decisions about players and choices, and some of the exciting things that had happened with the team.

Gary Smith’s Nashville legacy

NASHVILLE, TN – The Gary Smith era is over in Nashville, ending with a Thursday morning press release announcing that Nashville SC had parted ways with the only manager they’ve ever had. Building from the ground up The Englishman joined the organization in 2017, arriving in the Music City a

SixOneFive SoccerBen Wright

Growth is about appreciating the things that had not gone quite as well, and there were certainly those situations. For the most part, I felt as though the time in Nashville was an exceptional one. It was exciting, it was new, and I think the product in the end that was put on the field was a very good one, certainly a fantastic foundation to move on from, which is what we're seeing right now with the team.

It's been very nice to be around the family a bit more. My kids have grown up or are growing up, and it's probably my last opportunity to be around them and enjoy what they're about before they go off and do their own thing.

Wright: You came to Nashville in 2017, before the USL team really even existed. Getting the USL team up and running, going from USL to MLS, opening Geodis Park — there was a tremendous amount of change just in a few years. What are you most proud of?

Smith: I mean, there were some fantastic things that went on in USL. But let's be honest, MLS is the place to be. The staff from top to bottom, whether the coaches or recruitment staff, I thought they reflected and presented themselves very, very well.

I think I'd said somewhere prior to the start of that 2020 season that I'd like to be able to put a team on the field that the fans are proud of. And I think that's a big part of any community. And yes, there are gonna be times where it doesn't go your way in terms of a result. But it's the way that you perform, and it's the heart and passion that fans see in players. Some fans will love the technical and gifted individuals, the Hany Mukhtars of this world, but some fans will love the blood and thunder of the Walker Zimmermans of this world, the ones that have got a really big heart and may not be quite as talented. You need that balance and those characters within a group to be successful.

Recap: Nashville SC dominant in first playoff match, cruise past Miami to advance

The Boys In Gold scored three goals at Nissan Stadium in their first-ever playoff match

SixOneFive SoccerBen Wright

Because we came into the league as expansion teams together, Inter Miami were really the team we were being compared with in that first year. I think to beat them so convincingly in the playoffs that year was a real high for the group. It was a special moment. It was almost a bit of a poke in the eye for them as well, given that they'd taken a lot of the media coverage and the products for the players that they were signing.

Strangely enough, probably the biggest moment of my time at the club was, of course, the Leagues Cup final against Miami. An incredible occasion. Leagues Cup was a new cup. Nobody really knew what we were going to get out of it and what it was going to represent. Slowly but surely, as you go through the rounds, you start to think, "Hold on a second, this could be for us, this could be our year!"

And then, of course, you see Miami and the way that that team was transformed at that point by Lionel Messi. And of course, the two other players, Jordi Alba and Sergio Busquets, who came in with him at that point. I remember watching them as we were sort of working our way towards the final against them. The players around them were unrecognizable. It was amazing. That was probably the high of my time in Nashville. Obviously, a big, big disappointment that we couldn't get over the line. We came as close as we possibly could. But for maybe the best player to ever walk the planet, we might have won it.

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Wright: You've talked about how the early roster construction was about finding players that the city can be proud of, players who are good in the locker room, a good culture. Even now, that's still the standard for this Nashville team. Do you take any pride in setting that foundation?

Smith: Absolutely, yeah! The players that came in in those early years, the likes of Dax McCarty, Aníbal Godoy, Walker Zimmerman, Dan Lovitz, who's still around, or Joe Willis. There were some fantastic senior figures there. It really was part and parcel with the planning of building the group; the culture and the personality of the team were way, way more important than the actual talent that we were going to identify. That's not to say that we didn't need individuals who were capable of creation and goal-scoring. Of course we did! But there was a huge emphasis placed on making sure that the characters that were coming in were not going to only be good for that first year, but were going to be able to deal with expansion.

We weren't silly enough to not look at some of the other teams that had struggled and had invested an awful lot of money, but had really not gotten an awful lot of return for what they'd put into it. I think that first year really set the tone for a lot of things.

In year two, we made a slight change in style. We played a back three for quite a lot of that year. We brought in CJ Sapong. We played a front three, and if you remember rightly Hany Mukhtar, CJ and Randall Leal were fantastic that year. There was a good balance to the side. But in terms of where we finished, the points that were accrued, and the goal difference within the group, I thought there were some real positives and big steps. We looked like a team that were evolving.

Gary Smith on Sam Surridge: “He can score goals at all levels”

Finally, Nashville SC have a Designated Player striker. The club signed 24-year-old Sam Surridge from Nottingham Forest on Tuesday, bolstering an attack that sorely needs another dimension. It’s been a need for Nashville since their MLS debut in 2020. They’ve tried to address it, too, signing Jhonder Cádiz

SixOneFive SoccerBen Wright

I'd have loved to have been part of that transition, but it wasn't to be. But as you look at it, the changes and the moves that have been made, they have been spot on. The team's doing everything well. I love seeing the fact that Sam Surridge and Hany are as exciting as they were when I was around in that 2023 season. It was fabulous to see Sam come on the scene in Leagues Cup and make such a difference. And Hany's MVP award the year before, that was something to always remember.

The best value Designated Player this league has ever seen

Wright: When Hany was signed, it seemed like the plan was for him to be more of a creator. What was the process of identifying that he could work as the primary goal-scoring threat, and then implementing that?

Smith: I'll have to go back, if you don't mind, to when we recruited him. We were in the last year of USL, but also in preparation for the next year in MLS. We were looking for a No. 10, a creator, somebody who could come in and dictate that central attacking area of the field. Along with Mike Jacobs, I'd bet I looked at probably 10 or 12 creators. And the thing that stuck out with Hany was that his personality at Brøndby really lent itself to a team orientation. Really good energy, really intelligent player. He didn't show what you're talking about necessarily, a lot of goal-scoring moments, but more of that team element. And that part of it drew me to him to begin with. By the way, I think we will both agree that Hany has to be the best value Designated Player this league has ever seen, surely.

I've got to say that in the first year that we had Hany, he went through some difficult periods of change. I remember talking to him about the heat in the summer. And we were in that Covid year. It wasn't great for the way that the team bonded and balanced. And it really wasn't until the following season when there was a slight shift. I think CJ was a huge help in the way that Hany was able to affect the game. CJ's physicality, his athleticism, were very, very different to what we'd seen up to that point. But CJ's experience and understanding of how they were going to get the best out of each other, and that shift of Randall being explosive as the third attacking player, really made a difference.

Nashville SC’s Hany Mukhtar named MLS MVP

NASHVILLE, TN – Nashville SC midfielder Hany Mukhtar was named Landon Donovan MLS MVP on Tuesday, earning the highest individual honor in Major League Soccer. Official: Hany Mukhtar is the 2022 Landon Donovan MLS MVP. 🫡#EveryoneN pic.twitter.com/ArIKjnIoVc — Speedway Soccer (@615Soccer) November 1, 2022 With 23 goals and 11

SixOneFive SoccerBen Wright

But the biggest difference, for me, was the work that Hany and assistant coach Steve Guppy were doing in the background. Steve has always been highly focused on those one-versus-one moments. It's not just about taking players on; it's about having the ability and the confidence to keep your head up and to see a pass if need be. It's about shifting the ball to get a shot off. There are a lot of little details and intricacies that go into that.

Hany bought into it. Steve was highly motivated by it. They worked tirelessly. Quite honestly, that's what made him an MVP. That was the difference. The goals, the creation, the ability to change his mindset, and to really force himself into areas of the field that I don't think he'd experienced anywhere else in his career.

The signings that didn't work and the label that stuck

Wright: One of the criticisms of your time with Nashville was the lack of youth involvement. What would you say to that?

Smith: Yeah, first of all, you've got the reserve minimum group off-roster that really, for the most part, contains those younger players. And part of the process when we came into the league was looking at those players and that spot. We didn't have an academy group. We didn't have a reserve team at that point.

I would point to the fact that we signed Brian Anunga, who was 22. Alistair Johnston was a really fabulous pick in the first round. I've got to tell you right now, I knew nothing about Alistair. He was all from Mike and Chance Meyers, that group who had way more understanding of the collegiate draft than I did. Jack Maher — whilst he wasn't overplayed in that first year, he was one of those guys you could see was going to be a first-choice player down the line. Daniel Ríos was 22 when we brought him in. Jacob Shaffelburg — I know he came in from a different club, but Jacob was still a young player. He was finding his way. He was a really good signing for us. And not only did he have a wonderful impact for our team, he got himself into the Canadian national team.

I think the criticism is understandable, because the team's not populated throughout with young players. And at that point in time, we were way, way early in that process down at Huntsville of making that happen. So I think we did a sterling job of bringing in some good players, some valuable players for the team. And in those early days, when we stayed competitive, I would say it was a pretty good balance.

Wright: I'm sure you've seen that "defensive" label get thrown around. What would you say to that criticism?

Smith: Well, I think first of all, there is a fine line between classing a team and a coach. There's organised and prepared, and there's defensive. I will certainly take on the chin the fact that we were ultra prepared.

It doesn't matter what sport you're in. If you're in football, you want to score as many goals as you can without conceding anything. If you're a boxer, you want to punch your opponent as much as possible and stop him without getting punched. I'll tell you right now that there's no way that the attacking players would accept in any team, "Listen lads, we're not really that fussed about going and scoring goals, we just want to be sure that we don't concede any." That's never going to work.

What was noticeable, year over year, the group was becoming more confident, there was more belief in the group, and there were some good players added to the group. There was, I think, an appreciation around MLS that Nashville were not only a tough group to play against, we were a talented and an intelligent group to play against, with and without the ball.

I've been able to go back over some of the footage of the team and put together some of those periods of time where we actually played some really good football. There were some really exciting games, we had some wonderful results, we were constantly competitive, we were constantly putting ourselves into positions where we weren't far away from silverware. I don't think you're able to do that if you're just a defensive coach.

Wright: Some big signings like Jhonder Cádiz, Rodrigo Piñero, and Aké Loba didn't play out well. Looking back, what went wrong? What did you learn from those?

Smith: I think there's not only an awful lot to learn individually, but I think there's a lot to learn from a structural standpoint at any club that goes through that.

They're actually very different situations and individuals. I think it's easy to bring them all together and go, "Well, they didn't work. South American players didn't work, you know? It's Gary's fault; he doesn't speak Spanish." That isn't the case at all.

Jhonder — I watched loads and loads of footage on him. And the Jhonder Cádiz that came in and played for us was not the Jhonder Cádiz that I looked at on video. I remember sitting down with him and saying, "Watch this, this is not the same player!" He was overweight. He was at the tail end of that Covid period. For whatever reason, Jhonder didn't deal with that process very well. Although Jhonder was still quite impactful, the good thing about that situation was that Jhonder was a loan player. We didn't spend a lot of money on him. Sam was the guy we were looking for, Jhonder was the process getting to that.

Piñero showed us that he had pace, and he was direct, and a lot of the things we saw prior to signing him fit that. When he came in, he didn't deal with the training well, he didn't necessarily fit into the group well. When he was out of the group, his mentality wasn't overly helpful to working harder and being part of this group. And I think there were one or two things off the field where he didn't exactly cover himself with glory. Is talent alone enough? In this case, it wasn't. I would ask the question again, has he gone away and performed and put himself in a position where I can look and go, "I've got it completely wrong." Has this kid gone on and really lit it up somewhere? I don't think he has.

The big one's Aké Loba. You pay a ton of money for an individual. And at that point, that player should have taken us to silverware. Hany was firing. We needed a center forward or an attacking player who was going to take us to the next level.

The process of bringing Aké in was slightly different from most others. Aké was an individual who was wanted in certain quarters and not in others. And that's as far as I'll go on that. I'm not sure he was the player that people thought he was. There were strong feelings about him certain quarters that, looking back, were questioned in other quarters. There was a push to take him.

I will get a finger pointed at me, saying, "You didn't play him enough." I would respond that there weren't many times when you would look at Aké training or otherwise and say that he could play 90 minutes of football. When he did, he wasn't capable of showing us that he was going to get remotely close to the fee that we paid for him in terms of his quality.

I had numerous conversations with the lad, and I felt as though he was just comfortable in picking up his money, which is never a good place to be. I was hoping and expecting a player who'd be fighting tooth and nail, being that person when he's not in the team, he's making everyone's life a misery. He wasn't, which was a shame. It said a lot about his personality. It was disappointing. I would finish it up by asking where he is and what he is doing.

Different mistakes. It took longer than I think we all wanted to get to Sam, who has offered the team and that attacking dimension something that is well worth the money that was paid for Sam. Definitely.

Looking at the game differently

Wright: You've been out of coaching for two years. What have you learned about yourself in that time, and what does the next chapter look like?

Smith: In any group in any team, I would like to think that my experiences and background have shown a particular relevance: making the playoffs, consistency in producing teams that have the qualities to be in that postseason. If I look back over my time in MLS, there's only one year that I missed out on the playoffs, and that was in my very first year. And that was in the last game of the season, which I try to forget, but I can't forget.

A lot of time and effort for the last two years has been spent looking at Bournemouth and that world of Bournemouth's budgets, recruitment, and loss of players, because that's the arena that they live in. That's also the arena a lot of MLS teams are in. Two areas of the game have now become so prevalent: turnover, losing possession and recovering, and turnover, transition, and attacking. That switch on and off, where we go with the ball, how we stop other teams doing likewise, has become so much more important to teams as football has evolved. Finding the individuals who are able to fulfill that style of play is obviously the next step. If a GM or an owner thinks that can be done with just any player, it's not possible. You have to recruit for that.

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Wright: What makes Bournemouth such a good model? Is it the ability to develop players, sell them, and replace them without dropping a level?

Smith: The bottom line is the template and the platform that manager Adoni Iraola has implemented have offered the team numerous opportunities. Number one, it's an exciting style. Number two, it's a style that remains competitive and successful. But it's also a style of play that is attractive for other clubs to look at. Two of the best teams in the world, Real Madrid and PSG, bought their two center backs. Liverpool, the Premier League champions of the year before, bought the left back. Arsenal, the Premier League champions, bought their goalkeeper. And six months later, in the middle of the season, they lost, arguably, their best attacking player to Manchester City.

They're not just selling players to teams that have financial power, but very successful teams, very capable teams. There is a combined quality needed from the team, a coach that pushes forward with this style of play, the profiles that the coach is after, and a mechanism behind him that is capable of bringing in individuals to continue that style of play.

An example of something that has gone wrong this year — a team in MLS that has had a format, style, and setup for many seasons, that they've got wrong this year. Who is it?

Wright: Orlando?

Smith: I wasn't thinking of them, but yeah. I would say they're maybe not quite as bad as the group I'm thinking of, though.

Wright: Philadelphia?

Smith: Exactly. They brought in a coach in Bradley Carnell who won the Supporters' Shield with them last year in the Eastern Conference, and they got rid of Kai Wagner, Jakob Glesnes, Tai Baribo, and just before that, Dániel Gazdag. They got the balance completely wrong in bringing in young, talented players who, quite possibly, have a good future in MLS and down the line. But they lost those major experience pieces and replaced them with individuals that haven't quite yet found their feet in the league.

It doesn't matter what shape you play or what system or philosophy you have, if those individuals are not capable of competing or don't quite have the skill set at this moment, it doesn't matter what the coach is about; they're going to get beat.

You'll probably remember, there was a time in 2023 when the Qatari group came in for Hany. That was probably the most money that was being offered for a player at the club. We had to decide what it would cost to replace that player, was the money enough, or if we had someone coming through that could do that job. I think John Ingram and Ian Ayre made a fantastic decision to say that it wasn't enough money and it could be very detrimental to the team at a delicate stage of our development. And you've seen a reward for that. Hany has come good again; he's playing some of his best football again, and he's scoring goals.

Report: Nashville SC receives Qatari bid for Hany Mukhtar

NASHVILLE, TN - Nashville SC have received a lucrative offer for reigning MLS MVP Hany Mukhtar from the Qatari Stars League. First reported by Al Kass and Transfermarkt‘s Manuel Veth and confirmed by Broadway Sports Media, the offer attempts to entice Nashville to sell the current best attacker in

SixOneFive SoccerBen Wright

The next phase

Wright: Seven coaches have been let go just 14 or 15 games into this MLS season. Are you hoping to get back in quickly?

Smith: Simply put, I'd love to.

Absolutely, I'd love to get back in as quickly as possible. I feel refreshed. It would be nice in an environment that absolutely suits and looks like a lot of the type of players and environment that I could be successful in. And it doesn't necessarily take an awful lot of change.

But 100%, the United States and MLS is where I would see my world moving forward again. My family settled. We're American citizens now. We love the US, we always have, and it's been very good to us. Nashville has, too.

I know what is achievable, I know what I'm capable of, and I'm very excited to implement it in a new environment. Not every environment is the same. Not every team is the same. And I think the very best coaches are able to adapt. What I did in Nashville was completely different from what I did in Colorado. I took over a team in Colorado that was steeped in mediocrity and won an MLS Cup within two years. If you look at the two major successes I've had in the US, I've gotten more out of a lot less.

I know I can do it again. I just hope somebody gives me the opportunity to do it.